ОТНОШЕНИЕ
Занудный мой ум зацепился за фразу «Базовое доверие к Миру» в отношение добра и зла и получается немного не так. Это ничего общего не имеет с добром и злом
Если родители сумели внушить ребенку что мир безопасен, что всё будет хорошо в любом случае, то вполне вероятно, что он сам будет интуитивно выбирать безопасные пути и вести себя, соответственно, чтобы обеспечить себе безопасность.
Если не внушили, то человек потом сам это себе пытается обеспечить, учитывая, что Люди это только часть Мира и доверие к ним, это только «доверие к людям» и ничего больше. Понятие Мира намного шире. При этом понятие «Мир» включает людей, но ими не ограничивается. Поэтому «доверие к миру, если его нет изначально, можно и нужно, сформировать самому», при этом, НЕ доверяя людям (в чем меня мой жизненный опыт постоянно убеждает)
Тут ещё такая вещь. Вот если ребенок ударился об стол и родитель учит винить стол, то у ребенка сформируется определенное отношение
Психологи исходят из какого-то усредненного образа и тех знаний, которые они выучили в школе. Реальный человек, сидящий перед ними, их особенно не интересует и они используют то, что из слов клиента подходит к тому, что в голове у психолога. Это мой опыт. По отношению к Психологам я тоже начала это делать. Сам Психолог как таковой меня не интересует, но я стараюсь использовать то, что можно использовать-какие-то идеи, заключения и даже словесные обороты. Психолога, которого бы заинтересовало то, что интересно и важно мне, я не встретила.
ПРОЦЕСС ИССЛЕДОВАНИЯ
На меня все Психологи злятся за правдоискательство. Людей раздражает Логика, на которую я опираюсь. Но другими инструментами (НТшными) я пользоваться не могу, хотя пробовала. Не получилось. Я плохо распознаю НТшную Ложь и запутываюсь в собственной лжи, если пытаюсь лгать. Поэтому и получается противостояние, так как я от них завишу. Выбора у меня нет. Я живу в их мире, где их законы, которые соблюдать не получается. В результате все отбирают, а виновата естественно я. На процесс отбирания повлиять я не могу. Вот Лайтман хорошо обьясняет (происходит спутанность, ощущение недостатка, смешивание всего….понимание-непонимание, хорошее-плохое, непонятно где и что,-а потом Постепенно приходит озарение и всё становится ясно).
Постепенно это «исследование, собирание реальных фактов и их сопоставление приводит к тому, что Картина для меня становится ясна. Тогда начинается Противостояние.
ПРОТИВОСТОЯНИЕ
Например, в примере с домом. Все фокусируются на том, что я подписала контракт добровольно и не хотят слышать, что я подписала его в результате Обмана
У меня цель–Прояснить. У них –Обвинить. Пока я не знала, что это был обман, я винила себя и мне было стыдно. Информация о том, что всё было сделано намерено. Человек за эту работу получил хорошую оплату. Для меня эта деталь все повернула в другую сторону. Но не для окружающих. Для них ЭТО ничего не изменило
Так думаю я в своём неадекватном мире. Там все должно быть разложено по полочкам и все должно быть «ясно-понятно». В адекватном же мире обычно всё оказывается совсем по-другому. И детали-факты ничего не меняют в той Картине, которая нарисовалась в голове у собеседника
ГУМАНИСТ из КАНАДЫ
Завелся тут и меня интенсивный иалог с товарищем из Канады , который оказался бывшим преподавателем Гуманизма. Очень быстро он начал учить меня жизни. Это обычный сценарий. Люди быстро схватывают мою неадекватность и автоматически начинают "сеять доброе и вечное". Так как я люблю не искаженную собственным отношением оригинальную информацию, то и привожу дословный разговор с собственными комментариями. Разговор естественно был на английском, но Гугл всегда готов помочь любому желающему или нуждающемуся
Товарищ написал мне первый на сайте «друзья по всему миру». Так как поначалу обычно набегают всякие товарищи с нечестными намерениями, я не ответила на его приветствие. Он написал опять
-hello nice to meet you can you talk now....Уou don't write...why????
- Hi! What you would like to talk about?
- your interests- reading and writing
-yes, now it's more writing than reading
-I also love to write, hope I can do a book one day, what about you
-I wrote a book, but it was unsuccessful experience
(российское издательство книгу украло)
-I am sorry…can it be amended, revised and republished
- yes, but there is no motivation for that
-hope one day I can influence that... What concerns you these days?
-it's people dishonesty
-yes, this is a major challenge, there are good and bad people everywhere, we have to be wise as we interact today, we all have our hurts and regrets (началось ...)
-I cannot see that until bad things will shows itself, but then it is already late
-but now you can manage the future better, because of your experience and new knowledge; one thing we must do with people is to clarify their goals and expectations. Many of us do not do this and we are surprised in relationships
(Да Прояснения у меня обычно не получаются и плохо заканчиваются)
- every experience is different and people don't tell you their real intentions hey tell you what you want to hear or what they want you to hear
-if you are building a relationship you must determine truth and make sure honesty is assured early; at the first sign of falsehood, break free; people play games with our emotions
-how to do it, if people do not tell the truth-how I know in the beginning if they say truth or lie
- you hold them to what they say-just like a job contract; we are too easy on wicked people; also you need to test people... those who tell lies, cannot hide long!!
Это я делала раньше, до Эры Психологов, но они меня пристыдили. Недавно пришла мне в голову идея поработать на ТЕСТами именно для себя, чтобы каждый раз не изобретать велосипед . Создать лист готовых Тестов для различных случаев и пользоваться ими. Я хотела использовать помощь психолога, который как бы знает человечество лучше и вообще одна голова хорошо-а две лучше. Закончилось всё диагнозом и приглашение в группу для лечения этого диагноза
- yes testing is good, but it takes too much energy and tension and not always give right result, so better not to do anything or do minimum, where other people are involved
-then you'll be fooled, hurt and be stressed, and potential good friends will be lost to you; when you decide not to trust anymore; experience must have taught you some new steps. to prevent being used; also, tell people up front what you want and believe: so they can't/won’t deviate from your conditions
-they will deviate even if you tell them, because for them they and their own interests are more important
-then you know when to move on; so less hurt, regrets time and energy saved
-I'm looking for ways less to involve in anything, where things depend on people. In fact its computer!!!!
-do you belong to any real community groups-like church, councils, sports or arts-there are some good people online, but you have to be wise and patient
(да, ещё "be careful"!!)
-why a person needs wisdom and patience in the group?
- we need that for life, for all meetings, transactions
-I have wisdom, but my wisdom is the wrong one...it doesn't work where fraud is involved, it works when fraud becomes obvious
-but now it will work-because you know how to use knowledge
(получила гуманистические знания!!!)
-what kind of knowledge? dishonest people have better wisdom
-no...they know you!! you have to know them…and I think you do now
-who are THEM?
-dishonest people
- I know only those who cheated-I don't deal with them any more
- that's what I mean…you know have their profile…you can manage them now
- now I do not need them any more...now I meet NEW dishonest people
-as you wish
-honest people behave the same way, but dishonest people have different ways of behaving
-keep your eyes open….look for the clues…and push for honesty…and you will be ok; ..rely on your intuition, your gut feelings
-if I'd push for honesty-people start to be hostile, because they need to defend their interests-its understandable
(Я имела в виду психологов-они прямоту и правду-факты очень не любят)
-wise people are not rude, aggressive, and discourteous
(и теории ни к чему хорошему не ведут все равно)
I decided to come to concrete thing
SITUATION
-I will suggest for you the life scenario. Dishonest people made an honest person to sigh dishonest contract. Who is to blame here?
-the signatory ..we are each responsible for our choices/decisions
-what kind of choices are in that situation?
-any choice…you must read the small books of Victor Frankl…very powerful on human actions
(популярная у психологов книга.психологи тоже часто отсылают к книгам,вместо того чтобы отвечать на вопросы)
-what is the role of a fraud of the dishonest people?-I'm interested in your opinion,
-role of a fraud...???
-OK from which perspective you define the responsibility of both sides? …some action happened-2 sides involved -honest and dishonest…We will blame an honest person, who was cheated by dishonest Right?
-in all situations, you are responsible for your actions. Even the courts of law agree to this. UNLESS, you are mentally sick
-so the honest person carries responsibility for dishonest people?
-you are responsible for your actions and he for his
-ok -2 people in front of you. How you'd judge them? What kind of responsibility you put on each of them?
- each is responsible for his/her actions. You reap what you sow
- in a GIVEN situation who is responsible exactly for what?
-even God is going to hold you responsible for your actions, words, deeds, .. according to Judeo-Christian belief
-Could we be specific
a cheater responsible for...
his victim responsible for...
-you stand the consequences for what you do/your actions:
you pulled the trigger
you ran away
you chose to be passive
you did not seek the truth
...whatever you want to add to this list...
(всё что угодноб только не конкретика!)
-I'm talking about very specific situation ….who did what in that situation…who is responsible for what?
- what is the specific situation you are talking about…read my lines again, please…is my English hard to understand?
-specific situation…"Dishonest people made an honest person to sigh dishonest contract."
-I have answered you…are you ok??...why are you unable to see my point…which I keep repeating?
(он должен был спросить конкретные детали-раз я хочу конкретный ответ,но он этого не делает)
If you sign a contract to pay…for a car every month, even if a gun was held at your head, by your boyfriend, who is the guilty one??
(Психологи тоже любят приводить примеры из других ситуаций вместо того чтобы обсуждать реальную. Они тоже не задают вопросов,потому что им и так всё ясно
-now its clear-the person who signed under the gun is guilty…OK thanks…I'm fine, just wanted a specific…What is your occupation? Ыtill I think in Justice System the signature under pressure is treated differently, but I'm not sure, I'll check…" threats used to force a person to do something: He signed the contract under duress."
-I am a retired teacher…when you check the law, note these for variableness in terms of consequences/penalties:
1. under duress, you shoot an old man
2. under duress you shoot a baby
3. under duress you shoot a pregnant woman
2. under duress you shoot a policeman
5. under duress you shoot the Prime Minister
(Я подписала нечестный контракт,но вроде это не очень важно)
WHY DO BAD IDEAS
-but we were talking about sighing real estate contract being cheated
- I am responding to what you wrote: 'still I think in Justice System the signature under pressure is treated differently, but I'm not sure, I'll check'
- yes I checked.....Misrepresentation, or fraud…Dishonest people made an honest person to sigh dishonest contract." contract was signed under duress NO?
- here the doer will get the higher penalty, even if he can prove duress; the law says: the penalty must fit the crime
-What IS the Crime?
-please share what you want to; state your point of view please; Your Q&A is not moving us forward peace. Being forced (or forcing someone) to sign a contract, whether through duress or undue influence, can cause problems for everyone involved. If you believe you were forced to sign a contract that was not in your best interests, you may take action to invalidate it.
- That is the right one in a given case…”Undue influence occurs when an individual is able to persuade another's decisions due to the relationship between the two parties. ... In contract law, a party claiming to be the victim of undue influence may be able to void the terms of the agreement.”
-thanks for sharing this aspect on contract law…here to prove duress is very tricky..esp when both parties benefitted from.. the agreement for a long time; and worst,…if the contract was against the law or illegal,…originally, and which they both knew, and …colluded with.
BAD THOUGHTS AGAIN
-but remember the initial scenario. Honest people don't do those things you described. What subject did you teach?”
- Humanities, then later Management
- ok -that was Humanity issue
-so what new thoughts do you have to share with me today
- well I still think over the old one as it’s still not clear…it similar to what once I was asked on the street “ Old woman went home caring her pension and a person stole it. Whose fault was that?”
-you can't decide…so why not just move on…
MOVING ON….
-OK! move on where?
- how can I answer you ?? .. I don't know you…you don't seem to want to be known…your profile is incomplete by purpose…yet you want us to communicate...
(В реальности это ОН хотел общатся и я попробовала использовать для себя этот факт, обсуждая насущную проблему,ну и знакомясь заодно)
-something is wrong with my profile?...we discussed honestly before…so I gave an example
- if you owned a PP site with 9 profile headings for each member to fill in, and space for their notes. And albums, but no one completed this expectation, how would you feel, think, do.....????
-PP site ....what is that? O, understand! Is that your site somehow? if it’s not yours, then nobody know how the owner feels. I'd not care, if I'd be the owner. I did my best for people and the rest is up to users-they can fill only one or they can fill 9-their choice-it’s fair
- thanks for sharing your view…I fill mine because it has a useful function...to inform others
-Huge №№№ of people here are fake, scammer and only want personal information-unfortunately. That is my experience here so far
- I don't want your personal info, your money or favors; all I need is your interesting conversation. Hope you'd give me some peace
-Did I take peace from you? I'm very sorry; I had no intention like that
-peace...?? real peace can never be taken….out has to be given up
-then what are talking about? "hope you'd give me some peace"
-you brought up peace as though you were guilty of something...
-When or where I brought up peace? Sorry, but I don't remember. We discussed honesty
- you wrote this today: 'Did I took peace from you? I'm very sorry, I had no intention like that'
-sure- in response to YOUR words "hope you'd give me some peace"…when a person wants peace it means a person doesn't have it
-you misread…I close my mails with…'peace'
-"hope you'd give me some peace"…so those words has another meaning? what it is then?...o! I got it…ОК
-wrote this today can you give me your feedback:
our world is fallen
from the lust of man
for power, pride, possessions;
he sees all as his, to keep,
and pursues it endlessly;
we need each other, now
students and teachers,
man and wife
parents and children;
without our touch, that warmth,
that love, respect, feeling,
we'd also fall, forever,
in perpetual decay,
to our final demise,
but faith and hope,
the pauline cry, new, fresh!
-What do you think-" the world is fallen" from up or from down
UP is "those who manage human life" DOWN is "just people"
-both, all
-so human nature is defected, was not created properly
-human nature is incapable of non-selfish things
-Why? This is the way it was created? What about animal nature? What is selfishness?
- how was human nature created?? Animals have instincts, not a 'nature' as we define it!!
-ok and selfishness is what? What is the opposite (antonym) to selfishness?
-check it out and make your point
- What is your opinion -what is selfishness?... I'll make my point after you will write what is selfishness for you
-Man is by nature selfish; he acts in self-interest; good to himself; humans are stimulated by "appetite" or pleasure and self-satisfaction; self-interest is his focus, in all he does. He wants to get something from what he does.
-what is wrong with that? Whose interest he has to act? Should he be bad to himself?
- We all need each other. If I live selfishly…I will die both spiritually and physically, soon, eventually
- OK
-I need you and your friendship…
I want you as my friend…
You interest me
I desire your truth, wisdom, warmth
Your affection will please me
I want to know your heart, soul
Peace
(ой,как-то много всего сразу!!)
-I think all humanity is moving towards increasing selfishness
- I hope you are wrong. We need more caring, compassion, sharing,
Altruism, and philanthropy for a better, brighter tomorrow...
-I'm describing reality
-I wonder what a priest would say or those who are spiritual and know God
-they would talk about Unconditional Love
-and that will be different from the reality of the USA businessman,
and that of the rice farmers of South East Asia,
-yes, but talk about Unconditional Life is only talk and doesn't correspond much with actions
AFTER SPENDING a COUPLE of YEARS with SPIRITUAL PEOPLE
- you cannot generalize in all situations; for every behavior or belief, discuss, you can find a small number of people... somewhere, either on Tibet of in the Amazon forest, who may be thinking and doing differently from that what we feel or think now.... today. Peace
PS - thanks for writing me …I care for you; want to know you more/a lot
Tell me about your ways; not your personal info; I come here every day to see you.
(я уже столько всего наговорила...)
-I generalize in all situations I was involved myself and it was pretty big number. I think because people are not responsible much for own words, words themselves losing their values
LECTURE
-always think of the people on the other side of the issue/subject; they also have views, though different; we must honor theirs, and listen to their voice, as we expect ours to be heard..
PS-- do tell me about your day, the things you do, and how I can help, in adding some joy, comfort to your hours, chores, your mind. I care...
(я конечно не слышу человека-это явно, я слышуб но не верю словам...да..нехорошо это ... неправильно)
-I cannot know what is on other people's mind. often they even don't know themselves and often they are not saying the truth
PUSHING my STUFF
-the point I am making is there're always other views than yours or mine; we don't have to know all of them
PS-- do tell me about your day, the things you do, and how I can help, in adding some joy, comfort to your hours, chores, and your mind. I care...
(игнорирую опять-ужас)
-For example if to look at the example I gave you about responsibility…where an honest person signed contract under the influence of dishonest people you put responsibility on the one who sighed. What about selfishness?
-there is human law or rule on selfishness; only God, the church and the priest have that law, and the good people of a community.
-what about people who are not religious?
-you and I have to help them to see the truth: selfishness will return to us, regretfully, if that is what we sow
-I'm not religious
-do you believe in being a good daughter, sister, mother, wife, and neighbor ??? That’s all you need to be...and all will be well in your heart/mind...
(ну вот -тут вообще завязнуть можно)
- I can believe that I'm good, but others can have different thoughts about that
- Your reality is just as important as other people, esp if it is different, on an issue…subject that is critical
- yes exactly when it’s different, then the one with power wins
-there's no winning; your reality is yours, forever, unless you wish to change it; but you are in control of what you think and belief
-sure, somebody reality has no problem…problems exist in shared reality-where both realities involved
-sharing your reality is your choice, if there's a problem, work it out; if it can't be resolved, agree to move on....as wise people should...
TO MOVE ON…again, but where
-People don't know how to resolve issues for the most part, they easily create problems, but have difficulty with resolving them peacefully….people move on and problems remain inside of them and in the environment
-you are responsible for your problems, not theirs; you solve yours and move on; don't dwell on things you cannot change
-I live and act with other people, who are involved in my problem…we live in society…and depend on each other behavior
-so why dwell on it…let's move on to other topics… I am sure you have more to say
(конечно,но как-то психологами сильно повеяло)
- Because didn't solve anything about that topic
-so what is your decision now?
-fight against injustice
-if that is your calling, go for it
-nobody supports as nobody believes in justice possible
-I am sure your friends and relatives will support you, if you share with them all the facts
-Why do you think so?
-no one fights 'injustices' alone for long, others will come alongside to help
(так в том-то и дело, что ни один не нашелся а В Союзе всегда находились. Теперь просто "move on"
-Why injustices in parenthesis?
-your injustices may not be those of others; their definition may be different from yours; they may not agree with your reality peace
PS - if you don't share your thoughts- we will have an interview, not a conversation.
(я уже столько всего написала ... ан нет ... не считается)
-"your injustices may not be those of others"; sure , but WHY you put injustices which I fight in parenthesis (that is my thought in a form of clearing your statement)
-I answered your question: your injustices may not be those of others; their definition may be different from yours; they may not agree with your reality. Are your friends and relatives with you in your fight ???
(ЭТО важно-как думают другие)
-nobody supports as nobody believes in justice possible
-that is sad, so what would you do next
-continue fighting
-you know what is best
-I don't know what is the best. but if "not fighting" doesn't work. then there is not a big choice-you fight or you don't
-what do you actually do when you say you fight???
-if I fight the FRAUD I try to bring FRAUD up as much as I can
-so what exactly do you do to stop or decrease fraud
-depends on the case-not much I can do, but I'm doing…In socialism fighting was easier as it was supported…in capitalism everyone for themselves
-so what have you achieved from your fighting?
-when? when I won the battle or when I did not?
-so what are some of the victories you have won… from your fighting injustices?
-not much-saved life for one client, did not hurt anybody (sometimes you have to fight for that), in socialism I don't remember now, but much more and I saved my own soul also. Many things are just not seen when you fight with the System, but it counts
-you should write up your victories as a clear and concise record; so it can be used to encourage and motivate others who come after you.
-People are motivated by different things-I cannot motivate them by my values
- So victories can motivate some people...right? …you can inspire people by all kinds of things, sometimes it's just the warm way you talk...
-No more-I failed completely to inspire them…no more
-so what keeps you fighting?? What is your motivation??? Describe one of your present battles???
-One of my present battles I already described long time ago. “Dishonest people made honest person to sign contract”… All attention to person who got after bad influence and nobody cares about dishonesty
-you are being vague and general…so what keeps you fighting??...what is your motivation???...what do you hope to achieve???
-I was inspired with project for autistic kids and thought I motivated a person to really support me on that. But he used it in order trusting him I signed a contract for defected house. He lied a lot
I'm fighting for
1) I see it as stealing so I need to restore justice
2) to expose the cheater,
3) to present an idea that those, who represent official organizations should carry responsibility for their actions
-best wishes as you fight your battles…use all your knowledge and experience well .. And do not exclude wise counsel from significant others, who know you and care for you… Peace
Ну как бы получается так
В РЕЗУЛЬТАТЕ
Товарищ быстро меня обвинил за подписание контрактаб не выяснив детали
Товарищ выспросил все, что хотелось, где-то упрекая
Товарищ наговорил много красивых, но пустых слов
Товарищ проигнорировал почти все, на что я пыталась обратить его внимание, включая тот факт, что НИКТО меня в моей борьбе за справедливость, которую он взял в кавычки, не поддерживает. Кавычки он объяснил тем ,что это мой взгляд на вещи, тем самым показывая, что мой взгляд по поводу моей Ситуации ценности не имеет. Товарищ упомянул, что религиозные товарищи определяют ценности. Товарищ призывал к миру, видимо такому «do not exclude wise counsel from significant others, who know you and care for you»
Кто эти товарищи, непонятно, так как я писала, что меня никто не поддерживает в моей борьбе. Товарищ упоминал, что он один из тех кто “cares”
-if that is your calling, go for it
-nobody supports as nobody believes in justice possible
-I am sure your friends and relatives will support you, if you share with them all the facts
-Why do you think so?
-no one fights 'injustices' alone for long, others will come alongside to help
-Why injustices in parenthesis?
-your injustices may not be those of others; their definition may be different from yours; they may not agree with your reality
И здесь получается такая вещь
Если это Твой Зов, то иди за ним, но если другие не поддерживают вклюсая его самого), то тогда твоё видение не считается реальным…то есть ориентироваться надо на других, даже если это Твой Зов. Как-то всё нелогично и противоречиво.
И бесконечные пожелания «мира» заботливым товарищем мир не приносили
ЧТО ПРИНЕСЛО МИР?
Закон, который попал ко мне случайно. Закон думает по-другому, чем люди, но обычным людям он неизвестен, а те кто знает-его не распространяет
“Acquiring private or public property by presenting false facts or concealing true facts, lying or abuse of trust for oneself or other persons constitutes a criminal offence of fraud and is punishable by imprisonment up to 5 years.
This offence, when committed in collaboration is punishable by imprisonment from two to six years. When the offence brought serious consequences it's punished by six to ten years”
Для меня всё сразу встало на свои местаб но кроме меня больше никто не отреагировал на Законю И вообще люди сказали что боятся законов и что без законов лучше. Ну и понятное дело, что Законы-то не работают, так что нечего и заморачиваться.
Я написала Гуманисту про Закон...Врядли отреагирует, потому что быстро ретировался,после озвучивания неприятной Ситуации. Одно дело читать лекции используя красивые слова и выражения, другое дело разбираться с реальной ситуацией-никомы не хочется. Мы с Ситуацией один на один. Теперь вот Закон прибавился.
Хорошо,что он есть!, пусть даже и чисто теоретически
А ЧТО ЖЕ ГУМАНИСТ?
Он отреагировал
"thanks for your mail
all I want is clean conversations
which will help us improve;
hope this gives some assurance
I see Albania has strict laws
peace"
"I understand, only conversations do not help to become better in not so clean
real life
I spent once 5 months with Evangelistic people -missioners from USA
We had a lot of beautiful conversations about religion
Then I got in trouble with those dishonest people
I asked religious people one small favor-to show non-honest people, that I was not alone in my situation, there were other people supporting me
Well, they advised me to apply for Jesus help"...
ГРЯЗЬ ЖИЗНИ
Гуманист верит,что чистые разговоры сделают нас лучше,чем мы есть
Он не одинок
Когда я приношу Грязь Жизни, озвучивая Ситуацию никто не хочет пачкаться
Чистые красивые разговоры это лучше и позитивней
Ну как бы старая история про Правду и Ложь
- if you believe in God,
why ask people for help;
ask God, and He will answer you,
if you really have genuine faith;
too many people want things from God,
but they don't see helping others as the key
to real happiness, just as Jesus did.
peace
- s far as I know God wanted people to help each other
Golden rule NO? I want things from people, not from God
-God helps us through His people;
we ask God for help, not people;
God uses people to brings His supplies to us.
if we truly love God and His people,
we will get results faster
and more frequently, from God.
-So, I have to be upset with God that he brought dishonest people to my life
- Please, read and study my lines again;
why do you jump to negatives.....
try to see the good in all things,
even these conversation we have here...
-because dishonest people harmed me and people from God did not help me It REALITY of LIFE who are God's people then?
Find good things in situation when dishonest people stole your money and left you homeless-and people from God did not help. I could not find anything good in that, but maybe you will
Ну, с религиозными людьми совсем не получаетя, Они противоречат сами себе и при этом я должна это изучать. Ну как тут не начать сарказничать? Но я же не сарказничаю ничуть. Следую логике разговора. Но это обычно злит людей. Очень злит. Гуманист ушел
Вернется ли?
Врядли
...но он вернулся, чтобы написать
- God's people are those who forgive others
god gave His life for the people who stole from you,
those who didn't help you,
and even you with your anger and bitterness.
that's who God is....
и даже мне с моим "праведным гневом" дали жизнь
- so I had to forgive those who stole Money intended for autistic kids and left me homeless, because THAT is what God wanted???
do I understand you right?
God gave life to people, so they would steal from others, they would not help people in trouble and those who don't like those things
and What to do with it? What life was given for to all those people?
I really do not understand
... ну как обычно-психологи отсылают к книгам, религиозные товарищи к Библии
- you have the Bible...online, free...
why not read what Jesus taught;
why depend on men to teach you?
you must have some knowledge
of satan the devil and his role today;
you are wise and intelligent,...please read,
or ask your priest or google online,
if you seriously want to learn;
and you'll find thousands of writers/teachers/articles....
sharing their views freely....on all your questions.
... пора идти в атаку, а то уже Сатаной повеяло
"why depend on men to teach you?..."
its YOUR words. Do you responsible for what you say?
I am talking here with YOU
we discuss certain life situation-that is all
you have your perspective-I have mine-I'm responsible for mine
Провоцирую ... вернется ли? Интересно уже ... как надолго хватит его гуманизма...правда он сменил его на "управление бизнесом"
Вернулсяб чтобы "сеять доброе и вечное-люби врагов своих
Я их понимаю и потому мой "гнев праведный"-очень недолговечен. Это эмоция
затем включается мозг и имеет дело с эмоциейб поэтому я их не коплю внутриб я с ними работаюю Слова этого хуманиста конечно вызыва.ют нехорошие эмоции,но я на психологах уже натренировалась. "ты им про Ивана-они тебе про болвана"б то есть они считают что всё про тебя поняли и всё знают и теперь должны "посеять доброе и вечное" и их нужно с благодарностью слушать. Та же религия,только другие боги
- obviously all you say now is from what you've heard; it's from men;
so why not do your own study; this is my advice;
if you are serious search for what you want to know;
-What is wrong here? Which study?
I would like you to be clear for What YOU Say
here -YOU, a human being writing here
You , not others, not Bible, not internet
Be responsible for what you say
But I see it is impossible
You are unable to hear another person
You are communicating with yourself here
I wish you all the very best!!!!
Ну ведь не сдвигаемся никуда и всё уже ясно
НО
Товарищ не сдаётся
-sorry you can't understand my English;
please read my simple lines again;
you will see I am responding to what you wrote;
I stand by what I write;
today info is available for all your queries;
please do the Googling
peace
Нашел новую зацепку, только "не прокатит она"
-I understand your English
but you are NOT able to understand what I write
I DO NOT NEED ANY INFO
"I stand by what I write"
That is NOT true and what you write does not make any sense to me
But you do not care…Probable to you it makes
Разговор двух глухих...
-I am glad you now understand
and can accept your situation re:
those who stole from you
why these people exist and how you should forgive and love them,
as Jesus taught.
Ну вот -добрались до Любви...ну как не сарказничать тут...Как?
-WHERE I wrote that I accept situation and forgive them
WHERE I wrote it (not you) ??????
Read 10 commandments please
“Thou shalt not steal”
-if you understand my English
if you need no info,
then all is well....
there's no problem with you...
(as you said, perhaps I have a problem);;
ВАУ! Моя первая эмоция была "неужели услышал, неужели убедила?"...глупая вера в позитив изменения, но потом включилась трезвость - это очередной трюк такой
-Read 10 commandments please
"Thou shalt not steal"
Я подумала,что на этом будет конец нашему "диалогу"
ан нет ... а как же забота?
-???
are you ok? how can I help
--why you think that I'm not OK?
Спасение заблудших душ продолжилось
-you seem angry and bitter
and you tone is still the same.. judgmental...
Так меня вроде судят за то что я сужу. Проясним..ну попробуем
-What do you think I'm angry at?
Who do I judge?
What I'm bitter about?
Вот и ответ
-ask your priest
Я писала что я человек нерелигиозный,откуда же у меня priest,но это всё неважно при спасении душиб которая упрямо не хочет быть спасенной
-Why I have to ask somebody else?
WHEN you start to be responsible for your own statements, your words
Why I have to go to someone else asking "Why Paviel thinks so and so?"
It does not make sense
Очередное увиливаниеб спасение своей души от прямых вопросов
-you had questions about people who hurt you;
i guess if they are now answered,
then all is good.
НО,как говорится,не на того напали..
-Why you do not want to be responsible for what you write
why you cannot answer questions in order to clear up your own statements
-all is clear with me sorry
-clear? what is clear
if you cannot explain it to another person thаn NOTHING is clear
all is clear only TO you
but if you try to communicate something to another person, than it should be clear to another person
THAT is what wrong with you
you communicate with yourself
Репутация-это аргумент?
-ok....
you are the only person complaining
about me....sad
Печалька...НО Атака необходима
-its not complaining
you cannot say straight things
answer straight questions
its statement, not complaining
you probably think that you are perfect
than of course nothing could be heard
you hear only yourself
and do not trying to hear me
its not complain-statement
I worked many years with people who has serious issues
I HEARD THEM-that is what they used to say
you focus on yourself and things you believe in
and unable to step away from that path
и ОБВИНЕНИЕ!!!
"Forgiving thieves" means to let them steal from others
Its a very HARMFUL statement or advice
-why are you doing this
time is precious
God made us to be kind, thoughtful.
I am not important; I am nothing;
what I believe is what Jesus said;
it is not mine; truth is His;
whether you forgive people or not,
they will have to answer for what they do...one day
- which day? so far they will continue hurting people
killers if forgiven will continue killing people
you don't understand simple things....
- those who kill will die
Read the Revelation of St. John.
-everybody will die
some die because that killer kill them
you probably accept and love pedophiles as well, including some priests-pedophiles
-God loves all His children,
but He hates their sins, evil, wickedness;
you would also feel the same way,
if you had children.
1) I do have children
2) You are not God. Talk for yourself. You are just a human being as me. You
feel one way-I feel another way. That is what you need to accept
-you keep missing the point
God's way!!
as found in His words.
-I think you miss the point
I NEVER ask you about God's words or religion
I ALWAYS ask about YOUR words and be responsible for them
like "Yes, I, Paviel love thieves, killers, pedophiles, because.....
See the difference?
Лицемерие людей идет от Лицемерие Религии, Партии, Официальной Системы, поэтому я не могу нигде состоять, но "один в поле не воин", как показывает мне жизнь
Да, дилемма
--I have no views of my own
all I have is from Him;
all I have and give is of Him
sorry....as a human , I am nothing...
read my lines again,
and you will see me...even my tone
-if you ARE nothing-all you say is also NOTHING
I talked to nobody-emptiness
-sad how you select from my lines/thoughts,
only what you want to use against me;
why are you so negative
peace
-I do not select
I reflect what YOU write
read YOUR lines and you will see
do you see this as emptiness??
-I have no views of my own
all I have is from Him;
all I have and give is of Him
-Focus on YOURSELF instead of judging me
as being negative or angry or whatever
You are nothing
"..as a human , I am nothing."
so, first become somebody
who is responsible for what you say, then SAY
you are NOT God
You are Paviel, a retired teacher of humanism
you have to accept that simple thing
-try and read and study what is the spirit also the soul;
the flesh is nothing in the eternality of God
-Why you are telling me what to do?
Did I asked you ever "WHAT should I do Paviel?" Did I?
-forget me as a topic
talk about you, that person,
who you should know
-WHY you tell me what should I DO?
YOU ARE NOTHING
-"Looking for meeting people from different cultures. Interests-writing, photography, psychology, autism, reading , life news and life philosophy, interesting and unusual ideas" = ???
Непонятно,что непонятного в этих словах? Такое взаимонепонимание. Очень часто встречается у меня и невозможно это исправить. Я пробовала всякие способы Например " Давай найдемт точку взаимопонимания и будем от неё отталкиваться" Не принимаетсяю Мои предложения не принимаются. С другой стороны предлогается только одно "Делай как я говорю".
Почему?
-Потому что это так
Это убеждение нормальномыслящих людейб от слова "норма"
Гегемон-все должны подчиняться
-because you are NOT able to see-hear another person
then you are really nothing
nothing who thinks that he is God's messenger
-thanks for your judging, condemnation,
sad this is how you talk
-do not afraid to hear the TRUTH from another person
there is NO condemnation
I'm trying to SHOW you something, which you are NOT able to see
SAD is that you are NOT able to hear
-again, thanks for all you say
please don't say any more
it's too much negative
please I beg you....don't do it anymore
Сейчас идет намек на мою жестокость и отсутствие милосердия-знакомый сценарий-опять мне указывают что нужно делать
-It is NOT negative
it must be HELPFUL to you
if you step out of your own Ego
Не думаю что это конец, потому что моё слово не может быть последним-это не принимается
Но похоже на этот раз я ошиблась. Возражений не последовало. Тишина
Что она означает неизвестно. Скорей всего-я безнадежна-человек просто взмолился пощадить его чувства...
ФОРМА и СОДЕРЖАНИЕ
В группе аутистов нам обьсняли , что люди фокусируются больше на форме, чем на содержании, действовать на эмоции гораздо эффективнее. И гуманист тоже указывал на свой мягкий тон, призывал любить и прощать. Красиво же! Указывал на идею что человек ничто, а Бог всё. При всем при этом никакой "любви" по отношению к себе я не чувствовала-только критика,неприятие,обвинение, но всё это конечно только из любви и заботы
Да, как-то нелогично мне всё этоб хоть по форме и красиво