Родичи голосуют за Бар

WRONG ASSUMPTIONS

I always thought that being sick is wrong and the illness should be fixed as health is much better. I was wrong about that as I’m wrong about many things which are obvious to people with typical minds. If your  illness benefit other people, then to get rid from it seems as not a case.
I always thought that more information from different sources psychologist has about an adult person in front of him the closer picture of the person’s situation he could perceive. I think Gordon also thinks so, as he tries to bring different people to his program to see the situation closer to the real one. But I was wrong regarding the psychologists  as I didn’t know much about their ways of work.
 I did a hard job describing events around my illness and read it to American psychologist, hoping that he would treat My Bipolar and not just Bipolar. He said that that writing  reminds him Dostoevsky and Kafka, but continued treating just Bipolar mostly playing pills game
When I found the one I thought he’d treat My Bipolar (and he was the only one who did that) I sent My Truth  to my relatives  and  asked them  to voice their own opinion- Their Truth.
 My daughter who really wanted me to be healthy (till she got under influence of relatives) did what I asked -she wrote her Truth and asked relatives to write theirs with the purpose  of “helping  to be free from the illness” The didn’t want to participate, but we insisted. Analysing their Truths helps to make  some portrait of them from their own words

DAUGHTER (сама объективность!)

Approximately every few years my mother falls in a state of depression where she remains from one to six months.  When my mother is in this state of depression, she feels dejected, useless, sometimes even suicidal.  There is a big change in her:  from a cheerful, active, bold, full of live individual she turns into a gloomy, listless, unsure of himself person.  Her usually active mind which is normally full of plans and actions now falls asleep.  During her depression she rarely has any thoughts except that everything is going bad and will get worse; she has difficulty concentrating on what she is doing; itэs extremely hard for her to arrive at any decision.
Everything that she strongly advocates or rejects, when sheэs healthy, is now in reverse.  The same in her relationship with people:  if, when healthy, she deals with some persons without any problems, now they cannot find a common language, and vice versa, she is able to talk to people with whom in a healthy state she usually quarrels.
For example, usually she’s friends with mentally retarded girls whose counselor she is.  They like her because she’s not nasty, often finds them interesting things to do, doesn’t try to get rid of them as soon as possible in order to do her own things, and for other reasons.  However, during the last period of illness, it almost got to the point when they hated and avoided her, since she used to annoy them with meaningless tasks, and, in general, it was not interesting to be with her at that time to any person, even more so to those girls with mental problems.
On the other hand, my mother doesn’t usually have good relationships with her mother and brother; they quarrel periodically, and then she doesn’t talk to them until one of her fit of depression occurs.  During that time, her mother, my grandmother, usually becomes very helpful, soft and pities my mother.  My mother regrets that she has treated her so bad, starts saying what a bad daughter she has been.  They start calling each other “mother” and “daughter”, whereas usually they call e/o by names.  It used to surprise me how quickly they become friends with e/o after a long time of bitterness.  But I understand now it’s not a real friendship; it always shatters as soon as my mother starts taking medicine that pulls her out of melancholic mood.  When my grandmother sees that her daughter becomes her old self again, and already starts getting a bit impatient with her (since my grandmother is a VERY difficult person to deal with), the grandmother also assumes her old defending attitude and looks for quarrel at each word.  As if she realizes that now there is nothing to be gained from her daughter, so it’s better to separate as soon as possible.  Also, I used to be confused that during the healthy period if I defend the grandmother, my mother would shout at me and show me through countless examples that the grandmother thinks about nobody but herself, whereas, during the illness, when the grandmother is a saint in the eyes of my mother, if I even hint at one of those examples that shows grandmother’s selfishness, my mother would tell me that I don’t treat my grandmother properly, that I speak roughly with her.
Another notable thing is that during depression my mother losses memory, both short- and long-termed.  She doesn’t remember what somebody told her a few minutes ago, doesn’t remember simple facts that she’s usually brilliant at.  But that, of course, is no wonder.  Since her mind is sleeping, it cannot remember small things.  As for things that happen some time ago and that my mother remembers when she’s in healthy state, I think it’s pushed to the back of her mind by constant worries of all sorts.
A change of opinion about her actions and thoughts also take place when she’s in depression.  She hates herself for how she has behaved when she was healthy, how she treated her relatives, how bold and impudent she has been, and other things.  She also expresses her fears that I behave like her, that I’ve learned her bad ways of behaving.  She begs me not to learn from her and not to behave the way she does, especially towards our relatives.
Also, during the depression, she becomes deceivingly pitiful of other people.  She realizes what an annoying useless person she became to me, to the girls in her work, and to other people, but, of course, that doesn’t help her to become herself again.
It’s hard to say what causes these fits of depression, especially that I only remember 2 of them that happened in America.  But the thing that I’ve noticed is that both of them happened in summer which is usually a deadly season for us because there is no work, no school, no money.  So, we start speculating what’s going to happen to us, are they going to throw us out of our house, how are we going to live without money, would we be forced to go beg on the street, etc.  And, what happens is that sometimes my mother doesn’t stop at expressing her worries, she falls into that state of depression where she remains even after our affairs are fixed.  I hope that with time, as we progress through a working latter and getting better and better jobs, my mother will get into those depression states less and less often because losing a job wouldn’t mean a disaster any longer.

Тут она ошиблась. Мои депрессии не были связаны ни с сезонами, ни с жизненными обстоятельствами, а тем ментальным процессом который у меня внутри происходил. Как только я его изучила и начала его контролировать и им управлять БАР стал меняться и вскоре совсем как болезнь закончился


Муж матери-такая же Белая Ворона в стае, только трусливая. Если я возвращалась к стае только во время Биполярной депрессии, то он в стае нуждался и без неё не мог. Он несколько раз пытался вырваться, но всё равно возвращался. Говорил что мне завидовал, что я свободна. Свобода эта всё же не та свобода которую бы хотелось иметь. Я ему завидовала только в период глубоких депрессий, но тогда я завидовала любому человеку

MOTHER’S HUSBAND (не ищи Правды!!!)

Уou want to find out the truth.  Listen to me.  Don't pursue this topic.  Don't ask us all to talk about your mom.  We'll tell you something bad now, and then, at one time, when you'll be angry with your mom, you'll throw it back to her face.  Drop it, don't pursue it.  If we, all 3 of us, I, your uncle, your grandma, all tell you that there is no need for this talks and writings, we must be right.  As so-so said:  many paths lead to the truth, but only one will end in the truth itself.  Therefore you're not on the right path.  You are alone against us 3.
Как-то логики здесь не хватает. Количеством оперирует. Мне такое много раз приходилось слышать. Их много!!! …..но это совсем не значит что Правда на их стороне
Дочь обьясняет
 listen to me.  I need this material so that it helps my mom and the psychologist that she's working with.  Really, it's not because we are trying to find the truth.
Дочь знает «копать Правду«-это плохо…но не убедила
     No, no.  You don't need it.  It won't help you or her.  I'm a painter, I understand such delicate, subtle things as human nature.  I'm telling you, our examples won't help you in the least.  You see, after the poem I also wrote a brief afterward in prose, then read it to your grandma, and she said that you don't need it, don't send it to her, so that's why I didn't send it to you.  You see, everyone has the same opinion that you don't need it.  "What do you need from us?" this is our common question, it is a question of surprise.  You  know your mom much better than any of us.
     Well, OK.  Since you're almost forcing me to speak, I will have to tell something about your mom.   As I said before, you mom has got extremely difficult character, it's very hard to communicate with her.  You ask me how is her difficult character reveal itself.  She is hard-tempered (gets angry for a simple reason), her face gets read, she shouts...
И это Правда. И ни один психолог не смог помочь мне от этого избавиться. Но я сама избавилась и сюрприз!!! Это ничего не изменило
     And there is this nervous illness.  The illness is such that none of us want to talk about it.  It's very complicated and bad illness.
     One time I asked your grandfather:  "Why does my wife shouts all the time?  I realize, I'm also a difficult person to deal with.  But I tell her things calmly, and she shouts.  She can never listen to me till the end quietly.   Your grandma, she has a very kind disposition, unlike your mom.  On the other hand, grandma and her son have similar characters.  They both have light characters.  Your mom, in contrast, (zlopamyatnaya) remembers bad things about people for a long time.

Это Правда-помню всё. И что? Я же не бегу мстить. Просто помню. Память у меня такая. Я помню где человек стоял в это время, каким тоном говорил….всё могу достать из головы.

     You said it before yourself that you see your mom staring in one spot, motionless.  This is one of her states.  Another one is complete opposite.  She gets red, almost purple, irritated, shouts...  As I always told her:  " why are you shouting?  It's not polite in front of neighbors."
     You, see her worst trait is the nervous state in which she falls periodically.  At that time she is ready to go to battle with a shield.  For example, here in America.  It was when you just came to America, and at that time she trusted me and told me many things.    And so we're walking down the road and she tells me:
     "I will fight with them.  A LOT of blood will pour."
     I told her, "maybe a little bit of blood will be enough?"
     "No, a lot."
     And the worst thing was that she was serious, she wasn't joking.

Ну, родичи нас так встретили что хотелось с ними воевать. Он конечно донес. Или мать как обычно из него всё добыла. Хотя это было сказано в переносном смысле, но когда у человека официальный диагноз, на него можно вешать всё что захочешь, чем родичи всю жизнь и занимаются

     And so go tell after that what has a greater effect, whether her bad disposition aggravates her nervous illness, or her illness causes her bad disposition.  Hard to guess where it is her character, and where it's her illness.

Да хороший вопрос. Я всю жизнь пыталась с ним разобраться-сначала про себя с родичами, потом про своих клиентов с сотрудниками. В этом и есть драма людей с психическими проблемами. Потому что и специалисты разницу тоже определить не могут-что есть болезнь, а что есть сам человек

     And your mom is a smart person, well-read.  I tell her:  "Сan't you control yourself, you've read so much."  And she told me that she has read many books about people with nervous sicknesses.  And I tell her:  "Stop reading this sort of books, better read about photography."  You see, she gets a kick out of reading those books.
Все про всех всё знают и понимают-что им нужно и не нужно делать
     You see, the main thing in life is to understand things correctly.  To understand things correctly, that's where the difficulty of life lies.  You may ask, what should we do in order to understand things correctly.  You need to read books, produce works of arts.
    Дочь:  So, what about my mom.  She reads a lot of books, she produces art (photography).  Why doesn't she understand things correctly?
     Yea, yea, it's a very good question.  Your mom really read many books, she has dealt with many people.  But you see, she changed many work places.   And she could never stay in the same place for a long time.  She cannot get on with any group of people.  Again, who can tell whether it is her character or her illness.

Оказалось что характер который не выносит лжи и различных подлостей и приспособиться к ним не может. Но это выяснилось только когда кончилась болезнь

      Our grandmother, on the other hand, is very interesting in that sense.  She can get on in any group.  She has worked in her job for 40 years.  It's  because she treats and talks with other people differently than with us, her relatives.  Excluding her son.
      Again I'm telling you, our examples won't give her anything.  It's not me who is telling you this, it's not your Uncle or grandma.  It's the truth.  The truth is telling you that your mom won't gain anything from our opinions.

Вот человек говорит о Правде, но говорит касательно  другого человека о котором он мало что понимает если учитывать то что написано выше. Человек вас попросил. Сделайте и дайте ему самому решать нужно ему это или нет. Боялся сказать лишнего. Боялся получить от мамани

      I saw movies back in Russia.  Foreign movies, called "Light and shadow."   There was a young beautiful woman, a bit sick nervously.  And to one person (I forgot who it was, let's say her uncle) it was profitable that her sickness increased, and that she, herself, start believing that she is mentally sick.  And he started influencing her in a very subtle manner.  And there was another young man who fell in love with her and who saw that her uncle was influencing her in a bad manner.  The young man realized how difficult it would be to convince her in the opposite, but he slowing started doing that.  He started telling her that she is health, started showing her life, as opposed to her uncle who was telling her that shadow was very good.  And he finally won the battle because he was able to distract her from dark thoughts, to entertain her to make her interested in other things, etc.
      The same is with your mom  Her eyesight is closed.  She needs that someone open her eyes.  I tried to do that, but I didn't succeed.   She is also, like that girl, in the shadow.  If some man fell in love with her and lead her on the right path.  She doesn't know she is in the darkness.  But who will do that, she is not young, like that girl in the movie.  It would be difficult to convince her now.
      I know you've asked grandma also to write down her opinions.  You asked her:  "Grandma, is it that difficult for you to write it down?"  Try to understand, it's not difficult to write bad things about your neighbor, that we would do willingly.  But it's difficult to write bad things about your relative.   So, neither I, nor grandmother will tell you anything useful.
      I also know Uncle told you to stay away from your mom.  I will not tell you this.  I don't think this way.  You always have to respect your mom, because there are no bad moms (with rare exceptions)  No, I don't say to stay away from your mom.  I would advice you that you tell your mom softly that it's OK to give advice to you, you and your husband, but try not to demand that we follow it.  We'll decide it between the two of us.  But say it very very carefully.
      Oh, another bad quality about her mom.  She reacts extremely bad to any opinion which is contrary to her own.  Like Stalin.  Stalin also couldn't tolerate opinions that didn't correspond with his own.   Your mother is typical ambitious nature, she has that Stalinistic trait in her:  "I know better than you all.  You, none of you, know anything.  I, alone, know.
      Maxim Gorky said very wise words:  "It's necessary to learn persistently and for a long time before you can CAREFULLY advise to anyone."  But your mom cannot advise carefully.  She thinks everyone owes her something.  Everyone needs to serve her, help her.  She, on the other hand, doesn't want to help anyone.
 
Ну, с этим можно бы и поспорить, но смысла нет. Приведу пример. Он рисовал картины, но не мог продавать и денег не было. У меня была знакомая продавала картины и я хотела ему помочь продать. Как-то случайно услышала как мать ему говорила « Ты что делаешь? Разве можно ей доверять-она же аферистка» Вообще-то я авантюристка, не аферистка, но дело не в этом. Он видимо поверил потому что когда он написал роман и я хотела ему помочь напечатать в России, он боялся мне доверить-украду роман. Вбухал в печать все свои деньги. Я была единственная кто купил у него один экземпляр его романа за дорогущую себестоимость. Ну да ладно. Вообще-то правильно говорят что если человека называть свиньёй, то он в конце концов и захрюкает. Я не захрюкала, но такое отношение конечно не может не сказываться

      So, your mom can only advise to you.  Don't get me wrong, she CAN, of course, demand too, but it will end up badly.
      So, don't bother to ask grandmother or Uncle to write you anything, they won't.  Or, you know what, maybe you do just the opposite, do ask them and let's see what would be the result of it.  Mark my words, Uncle will not write you anything, since he's busy, and grandmother will scratch you a few lines, but she won't put anything serious in her writing.  So, let's bet.
----------------------------------------.
Так мои родичи помогали мне избавиться от болезни. Ну ещё я пыталась денег попроситьна терапию. А до этого ещё как-то когда мы жили одни в Бронксе я позвонила матери и сказала что я больна, мне надо лечь в больницу, а Дочь оставить  не с кем. Не возьмут ли они её? Не оставлять же мне её одну 15 летнюю. Ответ был такой что у них по правилам посторонние не допускаются. «А что же мне делать?»…. « Ну придумай что-нибудь»
Хорошо что это было неправдой, а просто «проверка на вшивость»…..но когда-то много лет назад мне родичи так же отказали и я нашла выход, чтобы поехать в Москву за «лечением которое не калечит» Чем это закончилось я описывала кажется в «Мания Творческая»

МАТЬ (не слушай свою неправильную мать!!!)

          Your Uncle has a new job, so he's busy, he cannot write anything.  And I will not write anything down because it will get into the hands of your mom, and then I will be blamed again.
            I've already told you everything about it.  On her jobs she always fights with everybody.  I suffer that I don't have a daughter.   It turns out that when she is in depression her reasoning is better than when she is in that hyperactive state that she is in now.  During depression she thinks I'm her mom, and we spend good time together.

 Всё таки мы выбили из них ихние мнения уж не помню как
In this long story of hers throughout the 59 pages your mom constantly blames me.  Okay, okay, I don't want to say anything bad.  I do not want to defend myself. I was forced to put her in hospitals because I was afraid she may commit suicide.  But she always blames me that I wanted to get rid of her!  Even the doctor in the hospital told me the same thing.  Keep an eye on her and as soon as notice something send her to a hospital right away.
- Grandma, what do you think is the reason that my mom constantly tried to end her life by suicide?
- That's because she fell into depression.  It's always like that with people who suffer from depression, they even said it on the radio. . .
If it wasn't for you mom's character, you might have lived with your dad.
- And why did they divorce, do you know?
- Well, your dad just had a bad luck, he was a weak person, a sick person.  Therefore he had to listen to his dad in everything.  I'm not trying to defend him in this.  But who knows, it's possible that in the future grandfather would have left them alone and not give them advices any more.
But you dad, he always loved you so much, I've seen it with my own eyes.  And he also loved your mom.  When she was in the hospital for 9 days, he spent there days and nights.  And later, when she finally came to her conscience, he kissed her legs.
We had similar situation in my family.  Our mom also tried to intervene in our personal lives.  In the live of my sister as well.  And she used to listen at the door how we argued with my husband.  And later she left and I was left alone with 2 small children.
Okay, let's not talk about what already passed.  Let's talk about what's happening now.

It's very good that you finally separated and now live separately from your parents, both you and your husband.  Don't let them intervene in your life, neither of the 2 moms.  You mom should do her things, she shouldn't intervene.
      It's very good that you help her out financially.  That you help her pay for the doctor.  Only don't let her get too close no matter what happens.  Keep a distance from her.  Every mother has a feeling of jealousy that her child was taken away from her by some stranger.
      You and your husband, thank God, have everything.  Both of you work.  Have enough of money.
      - The most important is that you live in a friendly way, don't argue about small things.  Try not to pay attention to small things.  And a lot depends on woman.  She shouldn't argue about trifles.  Everyone has his own bad traits       Me and your uncle read the whole story.  Your mom's doctor is smarter than you and me, he knows himself how to treat your mom.
      ... It's so bad not to talk to your relatives.  Not nice, not nice.   Many mothers quarrel with their daughters, but these daughter still talk to their moms afterwards ...
      Your mom was here recently.  I liked how she looks.  And she behaved herself nicely.  We talked to her so peacefully.  (She barely spoke to me, only answered in monosyllables when I asked her something)

Вероятно была в депрессии. Когда я начала выходить из БАРа и всё контролировать и анализировать случилась такая вещь. Я позвонила матери и она начала кричать. Я поинтересовалась почему у неё такое отношение. Дочь при этом присутствовала и подтвердила что ничего я не сказала чтобы вызвать такую реакцию. Много позже я поняла что реакция была вызвана моим состоянием. Депрессия кончилась и я зазвучала по-другому. Когда я обсуждала это с психологом и также то что депрессия кончается и братец сразу исчезает ответ Психолога был такой
« Конечно, а что вы хотите. Они же помнят что в прошлом вы вели себя плохо»
« А как же тогда человеку выздоравливать если вокруг все против и поддержки в выздоровлении никакой нет»…Ответа у него не было
Выздоровление он обсуждать вообще не желал
А как же любимое утверждение всех психологов
« Начинать надо с себя! Ты изменишься и вокруг тебя люди изменятся!»
Ну только если ты изменишься так как им надо. Иначе они и не увидят. А как им надо? Вот это я и спрашивала…..ответа не получила кроме как «Твой доктор должен знать лучше»

BROTHER (все эгоисты!!!)

My son is such an egoist.  His grandpa asked him to bring him metal dollars.  But he all days long ran somewhere and didn't even remember about the favor of his grandpa.  I myself asked him to bring me real Russian wooden chess.  Of course, he didn't bring them.  As an excuse he started saying nonsense:  too expensive...
I do not complaining, no.  I'm just telling you this just so that you know that everybody are like that (egoists)
In your mom's story everybody is bad.  Everyone is sheet.  She, alone is good.  Oh yea, and also my second wife  and Alla Grigorevna.
Вообще-то я там кажется никому никаких оценок не давала, но описывала события и скорей всего описывала те события –факты которые повлияло  на моё состояние-такая была целью . Родичи могли бы написать-здесь было не так, а по-другому. Это я и просила их сделать С чем согласны, с чем нет. Они же во всем этом участвовали. Я хотела узнать их сторону, их видение, их Правду….это бы мне очень помогло….но как говориться «хотеть не вредно»
My daughter and my son were brought up this way.  No one taught them to take care of others.  They've always been like that, they would eat, get up and leave the table.  And we had to clean the table after them.  Especially son, the daughter is somewhat kind, caring.
Your mom.  She came to Moscow, didn't even say "hello” Ever since childhood she's been a terrible egoist.  She is interested only in herself.  She didn't care about anyone.  Yea, I read somewhere that such people exist, who destroy lives of others.  She cannot live peacefully if others are having good time.
 
ВОТ!
Может поэтому он так старался разрушить наши с дочерью хорошие дружеские отношения. Однажды он со своей неродной дочерью так рассорился-всё, на всю жизнь. Она неблагодарная и так далее. Мы с ним эту тему обсуждали несколько часов и создали план которому он последовал и всё у них наладилось, хотя вроде бы я должна была радоваться что у них такой раздор. Однажды жена его позвонила-брательник буквально издевался над ней, даже руки в ход пускал. Я пару раз была с ними в машине, так они как кошка с собакой грызлись. Когда она позвонила мы долго обсуждали ситуацию и составили план что делать если так , а если сяк-всё по полочкам разложили….и потом звонит через какое-то время и говорит что всё наладилось. То он бесился что родная дочь неправильно внуков воспитывает и старшего он у неё должен забрать и всё такое. Долго –долго обсуждали. Письмо я ему составила, доволен был. Я советы просто так не даю. Мне надо всю ситуацию изучить вдоль и поперек. Но.. все факты говорят что он приписывает мне своё так как когда я прошу подтверждение их клевете или голословным  утверждениям, они с гордостью и презрением  разворачиваются «мы разбирательствами не занимаемся»  Сейчас точно также делает моя дочь-она всегда была хорошей ученицей

She is similar to her father in this.  He also was a big egoist.  But besides it, he was well-educated "molodetz."  He knew a lot.
Your mom forgot to mention that it was I who gave her 1,000 rubles for garage.
My wife also didn't know how to live family life, even though she's been married before.  I had to teach her.  Now, after 10 years, she finally starts understanding.
Your mom also doesn't know anything about family life.  Therefore, don't let her teach you.  She is capable of destroying your family life.

Я не знаю, не понимаю, свою собственную разрушила. Неужели я буду кого-то учить тому в чем ничего не понимаю. Вот люди- просто что-то говорят и никакой ответственности за слова у них нет. Я за свои слова отвечаю.

And about your father, it's simple.  Here we have living next to us brother of his wife.  He told us what a terrible person ("sterva") she is, even he doesn't want to have anything to do with her.  So, you see, your dad is under iron hoof.  And his wife is probably afraid that if he starts to maintain relationships with you, he will have to give you money.  They are all like that (women).  My wife also was afraid of that.
Therefore, if your dad will on day want, he will start communicating with you.  Just like I wanted to start communicating with my children.
Your mom's opinion about the events that have happened is different than the opinions of others.  And she behaves differently than others, than what's considered right.   No one who had anything to do with her doesn't form a good opinion about her.
How many times I argued with grandfather because he always intervened in your mom's and dad's live together.
Your father also grew up as an egoist (like my son).  His mother cooked, his father cleaned up after him.  That's why your dad turned out the way he is.
Don't you let your mom close to your life with your.  She'll destroy everything and you'll be left again with your mom.  And will suffer again.
- Why suffer?
- What?!  Did you have a good time when you lived together?
- Yes, we lived all right.  Argued once in a while, but otherwise it was okay.
- Yes, everyone argue at some point (didn't pursue this topic further)

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Когда я без их помощи от БАРа избавилась и сообщила об этом матери и брату в ответ было гробовое молчание.Потом меня по привычке в чем-то обвинили.
Когда эта новость дошла до ушей зятя он предложил меня насильно начать лечить от шизофрении. Зять-человек мудрый, потому что российские Психологи его с энтузиазмом  поддержали.....Но это другая история
Родичи-это звучит страшно