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Runtu : We suffered beyond anything you /  http://proza.ru/2023/12/05/801 / can imagine the USA

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Runtu : We suffered beyond anything you /  http://proza.ru/2023/12/05/801 / can imagine the USA


A reader made this comment on an earlier post,

and I thought it was important enough to post it in its entirety here.

Thank you, Ryan, for a thoughtful and informative response.

I don’t presume to assign blame, especially not to President Wright.

In hindsight, it certainly seems as if more could have been done

to protect the missionaries, but decisions are never made with

the benefit of hindsight.

I should note that, given my perspective on the church,

I don’t see God’s hand in these deaths, either way.

 Anyway, here’s Ryan’s excellent response:

I’m Ryan Reeder;

I wrote the paper you cited in your blog entry

 while I was a student at BYU in April 2001.

 Greg Anderson, who just commented, and whom I met shortly afterward, alerted me to this discussion.

Part of the reason I became interested in this topic was because of the influence it had on my mission in Cochabamba and Santa Cruz, Bolivia from early 1995 to early 1997.

 Early in my mission, all of the American missionaries were greenies;

 the Bolivians and other South Americans in the area had been running things for the entire duration of their missions.

Thus, as Americans began being called to leadership positions, and quickly even being called to a majority of those positions, some of us sensed some resentment toward us from some of these older natives, a sentiment which we did not feel from those Latin missionaries who had been arriving contemporaneously with the North American missionaries.


One thing I observed in researching this topic was that in Utah,

 the assassinations of Elders Ball and Wilson

(twenty years ago yesterday, by the way)

was covered pretty heavily in the media.


 I compiled a number of the articles and sources

 I used in writing this paper here:


 There were a number of Church News, Deseret News and Salt Lake Tribune articles.

 Then the August 22, 1990, murders of Manuel Antonio Hidalgo and Cristian Andreani Ugarte in Peru were covered in maybe two or three articles and the March 6, 1991 murder of Oscar Zapata was barely mentioned.


However, the response seemed to be quite different.

As has been mentioned, following the Ball and Wilson
assassinations, most North American missionaries stayed in Bolivia.

A few were reassigned, a state department official (an LDS church member) came to instruct them on some points of safety precautions, and American missionaries were assigned to be with native companions, for the most part.

But drastic action didn’t seem to occur until after the Peruvian murders.

 While I’ve heard remorse about President Wright’s sexuality,

 I don’t know how big of a factor that was in the decision

to pull North American missionaries for a time.

I don’t believe any of that was known at the time; Elder Ballard told a story in his next General Conference address in October about a dream which President Wright had related to him regarding the work which Elders Ball and Wilson were continuing to do on the other side of the veil.


At any rate, following the Peruvian murders,

North American missionaries were pulled from

both countries for about three or four years.

These assassinations, by the way, as I discovered in my research, were not the result of anti-Mormon sentiment in the region per se, as was the motivation in the Joseph Standing murder in Georgia in 1879 and the Cane Creek massacre in Tennessee in 1884.

As David Knowlton pointed out in a Sunstone article, the problem partly stemmed from a different mindset and culture in Bolivia about the roles of church and state.

In the US, the two are seen as separate;

 the LDS Church is not the United States

 of America any more than the US is McDonald’s or Disneyland.

Its headquarters are based in the country, but that’s all.


Because of the long Spanish influence in Bolivia,

 a different conception of the roles of church and

 state have grown up in Bolivia.

There, religion is perceived as an arm of the state.

Consequently, these American missionaries were seen not just as representatives of the LDS Church, but also as representatives of the United States of America.

 This idea extended to include those indigenous missionaries who wore the badge and had adopted the name of the Church.

 For cultural–and terrorist–reasons, the distinction was erased.


Additionally, the politics of the time, particularly the war on drugs during the Reagan and especially the elder Bush years, led to quite a lot of unrest and anti-American sentiment among certain segments of society.

 The coca plant, from which cocaine is derived,

is native to the area, is widespread, and

has many traditional uses.

 Coca farming also provides an income for a number of impoverished Bolivians. Surely the rank-and-file Bolivians didn’t have strong enough feelings to warrant violence and terrorist acts, and most missionaries were never in any danger.


However, it doesn’t take many people to create enormous tragedy in the lives of a few people and gain attention.


I’m not really cognizant of how the decision was made to send North Americans back into the region, or how quickly it was done or what the process was like in the La Paz and Peruvian missions.

I do know what it was like in the Cochabamba mission.

 The first American missionaries called to that

 mission entered the MTC in July 1994 and Bolivia in September 1994.

 Between September 1994 and September 1995,

a total of 55 Americans arrived,

including two sisters with the third group.

I was in the seventh. Then fourteen sisters, most of whom had welfare assignments, arrived between October 1995 and March 1996.

 During these six months, only four American elders arrived, one of whom actually came from the Guatemala MTC

(along with the only native Central American missionary I knew).

As sisters’ term of service was six months less than that of the elders, this could be conceived of as the first generation of returning American missionaries to the region.


During the next several months, there were only a trickle of new North American missionaries. A total of five arrived over the next five months.

Perhaps interesting to some, despite Capt. Jack’s earlier assertion that “I’d believe you that this was the church’s philosophy if they’d subsequently sent grandchildren of General Authorities to the ‘hot spots’ in Peru and Bolivia.

 Trouble is they didn’t; in fact, they pulled out all the North American missionaries and left the Latin Americans in place, even though more of them had been murdered than had North Americans,” at this time, in mid-1996, two of those five missionaries were, in fact, sons of General Authorities.

Then, with the last groups that I saw arrive beginning in September 1996, new groups of missionaries arrived with what I imagine are fairly standard proportions of elders and sisters.

I don’t know all the details of the current political situation, but I understand that about a year or so ago (probably about the time this blog entry was originally written), North American missionaries were again pulled out of Bolivia.

This, as I understand, was due to precautions surrounding some anti-American blips on the radar screen with the leftist Hugo Chavez (Venezuela)-aligning administration of Evo Morales. Recently, the Church News reported that Sisters Beck and Lant, general presidents of the Relief Society and Primary, respectively, visited Bolivia and Peru, meeting with the first ladies of the countries while there…

 A personal conversation I had three days ago with an individual whose brother was affected by this more recent pullout, indicated that after having spent a year in Peru, he was now preparing to return to Bolivia.

I would surmise that these actions took place with a clear remembrance of and in an attempt to avoid the situations which led to the tragic events of 1989-1991.


Just another quick point or two; Elder Eastland’s name has been brought up on this and/or an earlier post–he was actually serving as an AP (Assistant to the President) at the time of his death (an AP is one of only two missionaries given leadership assignments over all of the missionaries in the entire mission), (which was why he was in a car with the President’s son, incidentally).

 The causes of his death, while tragic, had nothing to do with the deaths of Elders Ball and Wilson. It was just an accident.

The effects it had, occurring shortly after the assassinations, probably did have some significant emotional and psychological impact on many of the missionaries, and possibly particularly the mental state of President Wright.


Could these murders have been prevented? Was it a mistake? My personal feeling is that if the situation were to repeat itself, in an environment where LDS meetinghouses were being bombed and other potential threats against the safety of the missionaries, with anti-American rhetoric in an area where the Church is perceived as representing the US, the Church would quickly remove North American missionaries from the area.

 But I don’t blame anyone for what happened then

(other than the FALZW and other terrorist perpetrators, of course).

I believe that those involved acted according

to the best of their knowledge with the information they then had available.

When Mormon handcart pioneers decided to leave

late in the season of 1856, and were caught unprepared

 in the snows of Wyoming, they and their rescuers

experienced terrible hardships and many died as

 a result of exposure, including some of my ancestors.


But, as Francis Webster is quoted as saying,

 “Cold historic facts mean nothing here for they give

no proper interpretation of the questions involved.

 Mistake to send the Handcart Company out so late in the season? Yes.

But I was in that Company and my wife was in it

and Sister Nellie Unthank whom you have cited was there too.

 We suffered beyond anything you can imagine,

and many died of exposure and starvation,

but did you ever hear a survivor of that

Company utter a word of criticism? Not one

of that Company ever apostatized or left

the church because every one of us came

 through with the absolute knowledge that

God lives for we became acquainted with him in our extremities.”


I think the same could be said about the 1989-1991 murders.


 Were mistakes made?

 Maybe. However, the Lord works in many ways to the salvation of his children. He has a plan, He knows what’s going on, and He is in control.

I suspect that His purposes have, are, and will accomplish significantly more than a handful of lukewarm conversions.

As President Hinckley indicated at Elder Wilson’s funeral,

 their names “will be engraved forever in the history

of this church as those who lived as faithful servants

of God and died as martyrs to his eternal work.”


Рудольф Нуреев 1938 - 6 января 1993 дата 30-летия
Рюнтю Юри: литературный дневник
2023 Рудольф Нуреев: 1938 - 6 января 1993: дата 30-летия: / http://proza.ru/diary/yuri2008/2023-12-04 / в 2023 празднуем Год Памяти. Уважение и благодарность к достижениям Великого Россиянина бессмертны. Он - мировая интеллектуальная элита: XX век.


2023 - ХХ ВЕК - DVD : ДВД - КНИГИ АВТОРА НА ДВД : " МИРОВОЕ ИНТЕЛЛЕКТУАЛЬНОЕ НАСЛЕДИЕ РУДОЛЬФА НУРЕЕВА : РОССИЯ - ХХ ВЕК " : / http://proza.ru/diary/yuri2008/2022-05-19 / 2012 - 2023.


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1 КНИГА - The Great Surrenders 1997 книга Ryuntyu - история и политика, / http://www.proza.ru/2012/09/28/999 / : 2012.
Книга Великие Немые - Уланова Эсамбаев Нуреев ryuntyu - история и политика, / http://www.proza.ru/2012/09/28/439 / : 2012.


2 КНИГА - The Requiem For The Pharisee 1997 книга Ryuntyu - история и политика, / http://www.proza.ru/2012/09/28/1013 / : 2012.
Книга Реквием для Фарисея - Юрий Любимов ryuntyu - история и политика, / http://www.proza.ru/2012/09/28/430 / : 2012.


3 КНИГА - The Recipe For The Genius 1996 книга Ryuntyu - история и политика, / http://www.proza.ru/2012/09/28/1025 / : 2012.
Книга Рецепт для Гения - Роман Виктюк 1997 ryuntyu - история и политика, / http://www.proza.ru/2012/09/28/426 / : 2012.
Книга Рецепт для Гения - Роман Виктюк 1996 ryuntyu - история и политика, / http://www.proza.ru/2012/09/28/419 / : 2012.


4 КНИГА - Параллельные Миры Андрей Тарковский ryuntyu - история и политика, / http://www.proza.ru/2012/09/28/407 / : 2012.
Лучшее об Андроне Кончаловском в 75 ryuntyu - музыкальные и кинообзоры, / http://www.proza.ru/2012/08/21/1150 / : 2012.
The Parallel Worlds Andrei Tarkovsky книга Ryuntyu - история и политика, / http://www.proza.ru/2012/09/28/1039 / : 2012.


5 КНИГА - The Birthday Boris Moiseyev 1994 книга Ryuntyu - история и политика, / http://www.proza.ru/2012/09/28/1053 / : 2012.
Книга День Рождения - Борис Моисеев 1994 ryuntyu - история и политика, / http://www.proza.ru/2012/09/28/400 / : 2012.


6 КНИГА - The Premonitions - Andrei Bartenev книга Ryuntyu - история и политика, / http://www.proza.ru/2012/09/28/1101 / : 2012.
Книга Предчувствия - Андрей Бартенев 1995 ryuntyu - история и политика, / http://www.proza.ru/2012/09/28/389 / : 2012.


7 КНИГА - Superstar and Rock Idol Nureyev and Mercury 2008 - проза на других языках, / http://www.proza.ru/2012/09/27/1573 / : 2012.
Книга Звезда и Рок-Идол Нуреев и Меркьюри 2001 - мемуары, / http://www.proza.ru/2012/09/27/1568 / : 2012.
Книга Звезда и Рок-Идол Нуреев и Меркюри 1998 - мемуары, / http://www.proza.ru/2012/09/27/1558 / : 2012.


8 КНИГА - Home Truths Are - Victor Erofeyev книга Ryuntyu - история и политика, / http://www.proza.ru/2012/09/28/1124 / : 2012.
Книга Простота Правды - Виктор Ерофеев ryuntyu - история и политика, / http://www.proza.ru/2012/09/27/1476 / : 2012.


9 КНИГА - The Clown of Revolution V. Mayakovsky книга Ryuntyu - история и политика, / http://www.proza.ru/2012/09/28/1137 / : 2012.
Книга Шут, Палач и Дворянин В. Маяковский ryuntyu - история и политика, / http://www.proza.ru/2012/09/27/1455 / : 2012.


10 КНИГА - The Virtual Reality - The Contact By UFO Ryuntyu - фантастика, / http://www.proza.ru/2012/09/28/1161 / : 2012.
Книга Встреча Инопланетян А. Тарковский ryuntyu - фантастика, / http://www.proza.ru/2012/09/27/1356 / : 2012.


11 КНИГА - The Virtual Reality - The Seduction By UFO Ryuntyu - фантастика, / http://www.proza.ru/2012/09/28/1175 / : 2012.
Книга Соблазн от Инопланетян Б. Моисеев ryuntyu - фантастика, / http://www.proza.ru/2012/09/27/1341 / : 2012.


12 КНИГА - The Virtual Reality - The Temptation By UFO Ryuntyu - фантастика, / http://www.proza.ru/2012/09/28/1179 / : 2012.
Книга Искушение от Инопланетян Р. Виктюк ryuntyu - фантастика, / http://www.proza.ru/2012/09/27/1331 / : 2012.


13 КНИГА - The Virtual Reality - The Confession By UFO Ryuntyu - фантастика, / http://www.proza.ru/2012/09/28/1189 / : 2012.
Книга Откровения Инопланетян А. Бартенев ryuntyu - фантастика, / http://www.proza.ru/2012/09/27/1324 / : 2012.


14 КНИГА - The Future for XX-XXX Centuries By UFO Ryuntyu - фантастика, / http://www.proza.ru/2012/09/28/1202 / : 2012.
Книга Будущее 2000-3000 от Руди Нуреева ryuntyu - фантастика, / http://www.proza.ru/2012/09/27/1311 / : 2012.


15 КНИГА - The Music in St. Petersburg 1703-1905 книга Ryuntyu - история и политика, / http://www.proza.ru/2012/09/26/1286 / : 2012.
Книга Музыка в С. Петербурге 1703-1905 ryuntyu - история и политика, / http://www.proza.ru/2012/09/26/1257 / : 2012.


16 КНИГА - Руди Нуриев Без Макияжа 1995 ryuntyu - мемуары, / http://www.proza.ru/2012/09/26/1218 / : 2012.
Rudy Nureyev Without Make-Up книга 1998 Ryuntyu - мемуары, / http://www.proza.ru/2012/09/26/1210 / : 2012.


17 КНИГА - WW II - USSR Before 1922-1941 книга Ryuntyu - история и политика, / http://www.proza.ru/2012/09/26/1048 / : 2012.
Книга Вторая Мировая Война СССР 1922-1941 ryuntyu - история и политика, / http://www.proza.ru/2012/09/25/1204 / : 2012.


18 КНИГА - WW II - USSR After 1945-1991 книга Ryuntyu - история и политика, / http://www.proza.ru/2012/09/26/1042 / : 2012.
Книга Вторая Мировая Война СССР 1945-1991 ryuntyu - история и политика, / http://www.proza.ru/2012/09/25/1194 / : 2012.


19 КНИГА - The Silver Age Culture Russia 1725 книга Ryuntyu - история и политика, / http://www.proza.ru/2012/09/26/1025 /: 2012.
Книга Культура Серебряного Века 1725-2040 ryuntyu - литературоведение, / http://www.proza.ru/2012/09/25/1130 /: 2012.


20 КНИГА - The Silver Age Culture Russia 1880 книга Ryuntyu - история и политика, / http://www.proza.ru/2012/09/26/1015 /: 2012.
Книга Культура Серебряного Века 1880-2040 ryuntyu - литературоведение, / http://www.proza.ru/2012/09/25/1120 / : 2012.


21 КНИГА - The Self-Will Pogrom-Makers 1906 книга Ryuntyu - история и политика, / http://www.proza.ru/2012/09/25/1111 / : 2012.
Книга Cамопогромы Интеллигенции 1906-1991 ryuntyu - история и политика, / http://www.proza.ru/2012/09/26/1001 /: 2012.


22 КНИГА - The Self-Will Pogrom-Makers 1991 книга Ryuntyu - история и политика, / http://www.proza.ru/2012/09/26/994 / : 2012.
Книга Самопогромы Интеллигенции 1991-2001 ryuntyu - история и политика, / http://www.proza.ru/2012/09/25/1104 /: 2012.


23 КНИГА - The Slavonic Heart - Ilya Glazunov книга Ryuntyu - история и политика, / http://www.proza.ru/2012/09/25/929 /: 2012.
Книга Славянское Сердце - Илья Глазунов ryuntyu - история и политика, / http://www.proza.ru/2012/09/25/915 /: 2012.


24 КНИГА - Bella Akhmadulina and Joseph Brodsky книга Ryuntyu - / http://www.proza.ru/2012/09/25/906 / : 2012.
Книга Белла Ахмадулина и Иосиф Бродский ryuntyu - история и политика, / http://www.proza.ru/2012/09/25/885 /: 2012.


25 КНИГА - The Queerness of Passions and Stars книга Ryuntyu - история и политика, / http://www.proza.ru/2012/09/25/874 / : 2012.
Книга М. Ростропович и Галина Вишневская ryuntyu - история и политика, / http://www.proza.ru/2012/09/25/865 / : 2012.


26 КНИГА - St. Tikhon Tragedy Patriarch Russia книга Ryuntyu - история и политика, / http://www.proza.ru/2012/09/25/797 /: 2012.
Книга Трагедия Патриарха Империи Тихона ryuntyu - история и политика, / http://www.proza.ru/2012/09/24/1559 / : 2012.


27 КНИГА - His New Truth Andrei Sakharov книга Ryuntyu - история и политика, / http://www.proza.ru/2012/09/25/789 /: 2012.
Книга Выбор Правды - Андрей Сахаров ryuntyu - история и политика, / http://www.proza.ru/2012/09/24/1540 /: 2012.


28 КНИГА - I Fear No Evil - Nathan Scharansky книга Ryuntyu - история и политика, / http://www.proza.ru/2012/09/24/1409 /: 2012.
Книга Узник Сиона Анатолий Щаранский ryuntyu - история и политика, / http://www.proza.ru/2012/09/24/1399 /: 2012.


29 КНИГА - The Cross - Alexander Solzhenitsyn книга Ryuntyu - история и политика, / http://www.proza.ru/2012/09/24/1295 /: 2012.
Книга На пути к Богу Александр Солженицын ryuntyu - история и политика, / http://www.proza.ru/2012/09/24/1285 /: 2012.


30 КНИГА - The Temptation - Boris Yeltsin книга Ryuntyu - история и политика, / http://www.proza.ru/2012/09/24/1212 / : 2012.
Книга Искушение Правотой Борис Ельцин ryuntyu - история и политика, / http://www.proza.ru/2012/09/24/1173 / : 2012.


31 КНИГА - Imperial Russian Ballet 1851-2001 книга Ryuntyu - история и политика, / http://www.proza.ru/2012/09/24/1137 / : 2012.
Книга Абрис и Профиль Русского Балета ryuntyu - история и политика, / http://www.proza.ru/2012/09/24/1127 / : 2012.


32 КНИГА - Idol Gay Culture Sergey Paradzhanov книга Ryuntyu - история и политика, / http://www.proza.ru/2012/09/24/934 / : 2012.
Книга Религия в Искусстве С. Параджанов ryuntyu - история и политика, / http://www.proza.ru/2012/09/24/911 /: 2012.


33 КНИГА - The Russian Orthodox Church Nation книга Ryuntyu - история и политика, / http://www.proza.ru/2012/09/24/511 /: 2012.
Книга Мы Православные Славяне России ryuntyu - история и политика, / http://www.proza.ru/2012/09/24/475 /: 2012.


34 КНИГА - Rudi Noureev - Sans Maquillage книга 1998 Ryuntyu - проза на других языках, / http://www.proza.ru/2012/09/26/1191 / : 2012.


35 КНИГА - P. S. for the Gogol Book Dead Souls книга Ryuntyu - история и политика, / http://www.proza.ru/2012/09/24/334 /: 2012.
Книга P. S. для Мертвых Душ Н. В. Гоголя ryuntyu - литературоведение, / http://www.proza.ru/2012/09/24/323 /: 2012.


2022 : by the same Australian Author : Iouri Runtu / Рюнтю Юри / YURI RYUNTYU / Yuri Ryuntyu / URI RUNTU / Uri Runtu : 2000 - 2023:
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2000 The World Rudolf Nureyev Intellectual Heritage: Russia-XX Century:
35 books on DVD-1: NLA ID 40959455: Stanford University ID ZMS 2563 DISK-1


2005 The World Yuri Matthew Ryuntyu Intellectual Heritage: Russia-XXI Century:
27 books on DVD-2: NLA ID 45233287: Stanford University ID ZMS 2563 DISK-2